face to face

What does it mean to say one communes "Face to Face" with YHVH? Many people who lack spiritual understanding express the claim that the bible contradicts itself when it says no man has seen God "face to face" and then it describes some seeing (talking with) him "face to face.
- Jn.1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.(Ex.23:23)
- Ex.33:(vs.11) And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. (Jn.15:15) And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. (Deut.34:10)
To say one communes with one "face to face" isnt spacifically intended to be taken in the literal (phy) sense. Here in vs.11 the terminology is a Hebraism which means a close relation (1 on 1), direct communication/ communion as the verse emphasises with "as a man speaketh unto his friend". This is Not the same (Literal) sense as in:
- (Vs. 20) And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
(Christians: Note the ROCK in Ex.33:21-23 that made it possible for Moses to enter into such a close relation with YHVH).
Here in Ex. 33:20 we are basically told that phy. man can not phy. see Hashem while in the flesh. This is a more Literal sense of "face to face".

- Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. (Gen.16:13)
We know this one that Jacob (and Hagar) are reffering to is the Angel of The LORD. This verse relates back to Gen.16:9; (32:24). / Note Gen.32:30 "G-d" (not G-D or LORD) is translation from Elohim and NOT Y.H.V.H. and this is clearly the Angel of the Lord with further conformation in vs.14 "Man" (eesh)

For the Spiritual to interact with the Phy in a Phy way a vehicle is used. (example: flesh is the vehicle our spirits use to interact with the phy. in a phy. way.) We are made in the same image (Likeness) as the angels. Gen. describes These angels as eating phy. food and it sustaining them and Gen. also mentions man (Israel) partaking of angels food in the wilderness.
The Angel of The LORD is Mashiach (Messiah) prior to phy. birth. Mashiach is known as the right hand (Power and works) of YHVH (in realtion to creation/ phy realm) and also called Adon which is LORD as IN the earth. We are told you see the Father in ones works/ word/ fruits. If one can comprehend Jn.12:44-45 in truth he would know the hebraism used in the Torah.
- Jn. 12:44-45 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me
- Jn.14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? (In this passage Yeshua/Jesus is speaking of his fruits/ works/ word being that of the Father/ Emmanuel) Jn.5:36/ Heb.1:1-4/... The flesh man is differ than the born again Jn.5:37-47! (slumber)/ (1 Tim.3:16 / 1 Cor.12:3)

Abraham (Gen.17,18 &19)also came into direct contact with The angel of The LORD. These beings are described as "angels"/"men"/ and one is called "the LORD". (Gen.17:1 / Gen.18:1 "The LORD"/ Gen.18:2 "three men"/ Gen.18:3 "My Lord"/ Gen.18:13 "the LORD"/ vs.14 "the LORD"/ vs.16 "men"/ vs.20 "the LORD"/ vs.22"men" / vs.33 "the LORD"/ Gen.19:1 "two angels" Two of the ones reffered to as men are now called angels.) Melchizedek


- Ex.24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw (H#2372) God (Elohim/ #430) , and did eat and drink.(vs.8 blood of the covenant Heb.9:20) Hebrew - chazah- #2372- A primative root; to gaze at; mentally to percieve, contemplate (with pleasure); specifically to have a vision of- behold, look, prophacy, provide, see./ Rather than the other Hebrew word which also is translated to see/ or "saw": #7200- raah- prim. root to see, literal or figurative in numerouse applications,....

- Job.42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Compare to Job.42:3 / Shama- hear and observe (understanding). Heb.11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Biblical faith consists of evidence which is the same thing Job is sharing. He expressed that he had been told of G-d but now his eye (H# 5869 ahyin- literally OR FIGURATIVELY - by affliction, outward appearance, favor, perception, .... ) (H #7200- raah- literally or Figuratively- approve, behold, Have Experience, take heed, reguard, ......

Who has seen God? Who has a relationship (Is one) with God?
Judges 13:22 (Samson's parents saw God)
Ex.24:9-11 (Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, and 70 elders of Israel)
Ex.6:3 (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob)
Jn.12/14 (the disciples)
Rev.1 (John)
What phy. man has been in has been in contact with YHVH defacto? None, the closest one was Moses but even then it was made possible by Mashiach.

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